***The following transcript has been automatically generated and is presented here unchecked***
LinkedIn Live What can you do to make working internationall…
people, traveling, thought, internationally, jenny, talking, mask, feel, risk, important, navigating, risk assessment, terms, conscious, uk, hotel, pcr tests, happening, aware, changed
Nadine Powrie [00:01]
And we are live a very good evening to all of you from Rasul kangna, where Jenny and I we are tonight. Good evening, Jenny.
Good evening today Nice to see you.
Nadine Powrie [00:13]
Actually, it’s echoing quite a lot, don’t you think?
Yes, it is. Yeah. I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it. Really, I just hope it doesn’t come up, come out. In the broadcast. It might just be occurring to us.
Nadine Powrie [00:25]
It might, it might. Okay. So I’m Nadine Powrie. And I’m an executive and leadership coach and workplace mediator.
I’m Jenny Lynn. I’m a leadership development expert. I spend a lot of time in schools doing all sorts of things inspecting, mentoring, and developing leaders.
Nadine Powrie [00:43]
Okay, Jenny, I’m really pleased to do my LinkedIn live. Again, it’s been quite a few months now that I’ve not done any, because I’ve been extremely busy. We were talking today about doing a LinkedIn life. It’s not planned at all. And we thought, shall we do it and talk about traveling internationally, and how you know, we can make it safe, and how it can be a successful trip, while we are on business trip, and we thought, okay, let’s just do it without rehearsing and being authentic leader, and let’s think about what we can do to make those international business travel, successful and unsafe. So the first thing I want to say is that we are currently about an hour and 10 minutes away from Dubai, in a very nice hotel called the cove. And we would like to thank the chana who has made us feel very warm welcome today when we when we arrived. So we did say we would we would say thank you to Tatiana. So it’s important to say thank you to people. So here we are. Thank you very much, Tatiana, for making us very welcome. And for really looking after hosts today. So Jenny, traveling internationally, making it successful, making it safer. What do you think about that?
The reason we decided to do this, I think because two years ago, in February, March, we were both involved in a project, which was was cut short, because we had to come back. And I remember the sort of panic about getting out of the Middle East and being able to get home. And one day, it was just at the very beginning of the pandemic, it was about a week before we locked down. And it was a great sense of panic. And since then we’ve done a lot of work remotely. And it’s been, it’s been good because it’s kept us in connection with people. But there was there’s always a bit of us that wants to go back to traveling internationally. So this is the first trip away we’ve had. And I’ve been really pleasantly surprised in so many ways. And I think one of the ways is the fact that the security, I’m talking about COVID secure. And I think that the COVID security that we’ve had to go through has made us feel much more relaxed around people. Because we can’t have PCR tests before we came, we have to be tested with PCR tested every week. And here in the Middle East. There’s so much more COVID where everyone has masks, everybody has a mask on wherever you are three MyTaxi maximum, people don’t get into the lift if there’s already people out there. And I feel much safer here. Because I think that the government, which is is quite directive is actually ensuring the safety of their people. And I don’t think happening back in the UK. So personally, although there was some trepidation about getting in a plane with everybody else, they assured me that that was circulated every two minutes and I haven’t no state law in terms of security here.
Nadine Powrie [04:07]
So we are thinking a lot about health which is something that in the past when we’ve been traveling internationally and we’ve done a lot of travel, we’ve never quite thought about our health in this way have now because now the first thing we do when we go into a building people are taking you know I’ve temperature we have to wear the mask, we have to wash our hands, we have to wear gloves at times depending on what we’re touching. It’s all around our health. And I think maybe in the past we’ve taken for granted what we could do and now we are looking at how we can look after himself and look after others as well. But everything that we are doing has an impact on on others. So what we’re doing is not only for us, but it’s also to protect others.
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it’s that it’s that protecting others that I think that happening in the EU isn’t happening in the UK so much. I mean, just to give you an example, I went to the theater for the first time in two years last week. And there was no social distancing. And I remember canceling some about six, just after lockdown, because I just didn’t feel happy. You had to, you had to have a mask on to go to the theater, they were saying, please keep the mask on. And 30% of the people in the theater just took those off. So you know, my husband was sitting next to somebody without a mask. And I thought, well, how selfish. And I think that’s the courtesy of being aware that you’re looking after others as well, I think is I feel quite active, quite cross actually, with what’s happening in the UK. In terms of the rise of cases, well, they don’t matter, because the hospitals can cope seems to be the attitude. But I think as far as traveling internationally is concerned, I this hasn’t put me off at all. But I think that there’s perhaps a feeling that we are more isolated than we have been. And I think that we need to take some measures, perhaps to make sure that we’re not as isolated. Because you know, you can’t have anybody in your room. You know, you can go out, but there are restrictions. So I just think that we need to take care that we’re because we’re away from our families and away from the homes that were actually practicing self care more than perhaps we might have done previously.
Nadine Powrie [06:36]
Yes, when we, when we were talking to this afternoon, we actually made a list of what we had to think about. And we thought, you know, we need to think about health and safety more than never really duty of care, the company, the clients with whom we are working, are exercising more than ever, their duty of care towards us, we can talk again, about duty of care in a minute, Jenny, we have to think about compliance, we have to think about risk assessment. I mean, you know, three years ago, nobody on their risk assessment would have COVID-19. And yet now, it’s on everybody’s risk assessment, we’ve got to think about logistics, you know, logistics of hotels, logistics of transport taxi, you know, here in Dubai, you can’t be more than three plus the driver, for example, you’ve got to think about policies, you know, for your, your organization, you’ve got to think about a lot of things to make it safe. And to make it one successful for you know, people like you and me, who are keen and ready to travel internationally, because we want to go back to work internationally, because it’s very exciting to work with colleagues abroad.
Yes, yes. And I think that it could be off putting, for employers and for consultants, because of the I mean, there was quite a lot of paperwork, you know, in terms of getting the PCR tests and you have to have, and there’s there was always a lack of clarity about what do you need to show the test before you go through the airport? And if we come to the UK, do we need another test at the airport? And there was there was a lack of clarity. And I think that maybe the lack of clarity about things, unsettles people?
Nadine Powrie [08:25]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, what I would say is that you and I, we’ve been privileged to work here with people who know what they’re doing, and who are looking after us very well. And we are very grateful for that, because it means that we can do a great job. We don’t have to worry about the risk, because we are well looked after. And I think that’s really important. And it can make our trip very successful because we’re here to deliver something very specific. And we are we are safe, aren’t we?
Yes, we say but I think I think there’s I think there’s another step isn’t there? There’s another step beyond being safe and being looked after. And it’s actually your mental well being. And I think that there’s much more of a need in the circumstances, given what we’ve been through over the past two years. I think our and I think we’ve all got quite insular within our families. And I think this is the first time we’ve been plucked away from them. And I think that there perhaps needs to be an extra pop in. Are you okay, either from a friend or from family or from a colleague just because I think we’re, we’re more isolated now than we were traveling and doing the same job two years ago. And I think that’s largely, and I think it’s what we’ve come back from as well in terms of that insular family in lockdown. So I do think I do think no, in terms of self care, I mean, I know you’re really good at it. And I try to to learn from you. But I think that looking after each other and looking after yourself, I think is, is really important. And I think if you haven’t got somebody who does that, then I think it’s a real challenge.
Nadine Powrie [10:15]
We were talking this afternoon, Jenny, you and I, about, you know, what are we going? What are we? What are we putting our suitcase to travel different? I mean, you know, how, how are we traveling? Now? Is it different from before? Do we? Do we carry any, you know, anything different with? We put anything different in our suitcase? Do we need different things to make us feel, you know, safer. And we didn’t talk about it today. I didn’t wait to
do it. And we laughed, because you and I are such different people and have very different needs. Yeah. And I’d have very different priorities. And I mean, it became quite tried. I mean, we did talk about the stuff that you bring that you need, you know, your laptops and all the stuff that you need professionally. But then there’s that bit that makes you feel really important. And we talked that you talked about your products and things that was something that you didn’t like to travel without, and rather Denali. My thing was, I got very excited when I found Yorkshire tea bags, in in Carrefour and yet, I’m not a Brit abroad that has to eat everything British. But for me, the cups of tea just didn’t wash. So for me, it had to be the 10 bags. But I think that you’re you’re also aware of I mean, obviously the culture, sorry, I’m gonna sneeze excuse me,
Nadine Powrie [11:43]
You obviously have to be culturally culturally aware and also aware of the laws in the country that you’re you’re going to. And I think that the laws here are very different in terms of COVID. And I think wherever you travel, you’d have to respect those. And it’s very easy to forget to, you know, if you’re sitting in a restaurant, you have to put your mask on to go to the bar, for instance, or if you’re in a conference room, you’ve got to keep your mask on in the conference room, and then you’ve got to keep it on walking around the hotel. So I think it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the stuff that you need, you need enough masks to be able to wash them, I mean, to be quite, you know, present, to wash them or to have the disposable. So the mask is actually an absolutely essential to have enough to last the trip.
Nadine Powrie [12:36]
So when we were talking this afternoon, we thought about, you know, what are we putting out in our suitcase that we’ve never put before? You know, how hard we’re traveling differently now. I mean, we’ve got to think about, you know, the, the hand jail, the sanitation and all of the, you know, the gloves and everything. So is there any I mean, apart from the tea bag? Is there anything that you have in your suitcase that you would never have put before? Because the world has changed?
No, I think it’s the it’s the this sort of germ prevention stuff. You know, as you’ve said, the gloves and the masks. What about you, you think you have something specific that you do? In your face? I suspect you do.
Nadine Powrie [13:20]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, as we search, I am very interested in aromatherapy. And I’ve researched some product. So I use a lot of time, lavender. I’m just interested in to how can do you know, aromatherapy can help me become even more immune. I mean, some people might just think, well, I don’t really believe in that. But I think for me, while I believe in it, so I’ve given it time. And I’ve spoken to a number of people, for example, at NEDC out to understand the product that I could take that would help me make sure that I don’t while I you know, I can in my hand and everything. I think that for me is really important. One of the things that we talked about you and I is it’s perhaps a little bit more solitary this time, because you’re absolutely right. We can’t go in each other’s room. And we can’t quite do everything that we would be doing before we’ve got to be very careful. So I did mention to you journaling and the importance of reflecting at the end of the day, you know, how, you know what has happened? How different are you? Have you changed, you know, because you and I we were people before COVID And now we’re hearing in the same position in the same stages as before. And are we the same as we change and are we the same leader have we changed? I think I’m I think I’m probably even more reflective for what I was and I journaling is healthy for that. I think I am always wanting to do a good job because it’s just the way I am. I really want to give my best, but I think I want to do even better. And I don’t know why. I don’t know why it may be because, you know, it’s been about a year and a half without being here. And it’s really nice to be back here. Friends, colleagues, you know, and you can’t really hold them either, you know, you got to keep your distance
there with elbows and people not knowing quite how to greet each other having not seen them for a few years.
Nadine Powrie [15:37]
Yes, yes. I mean, you know, it’s not the shock of seeing them, again, it’s the happiness of being around those people, but just making sure that we’ve got the meat of a part. And yet, you know, the complicity the working together, you know, around those table and having great discussions that no matter what people think, I mean, zoom and teams, and it does not replace the face to face. And it’s been such a pleasure to see those people again, and, and they massively contribute to how, how happy how well you can feel when you are, you know, abroad. Ultimately, you’re on your own. I mean, here, I’m in my, I mean, my room in the hotel. You know, having left my family in the UK, and there is a little bit of solitude, there is a little bit of not feeling lonely, but you know, you’re not with your family. So drawing on the friendship of those people, and, you know, the respect that we will have for each other. I think that’s immensely rewarding replenishing and, and we’re all in it together in a way well, navigating, you know, though. Yeah, I
think I think it’s the joy of normality, or relative normality. I think that it’s been such an odd year, that to actually just get to get to do the job that you do, in a reasonably normal way, is actually really exciting. I mean, he talked about changes and what changes he did, and I actually worked very little over the two years, because most of the stuff I do is abroad. So I kind of wound down hugely, and I think I’ve never wound down that much, because I’ve always been sort of quite driven in my career, and in terms of what I wanted to do, and then suddenly, you know, I knew that for at least six months, nothing was going to happen, and then another six months, and then another six months. So I think I got to develop skills of being still, which isn’t one of my strengths, but also, you know, enjoying the small stuff. You know, as a lot of people did, we got into actually a really healthy routine over lockdown. And then as soon as the world started, you know, we did gym tapes in the morning, we always had a walk in the afternoon and ate quite healthily. But then as soon as things started to change a bit, we started to slip back into the old ways. And I think there was a purity about the way we live. I mean, I’m not, you know, sort of belittling the the terrible time a lot of people have had. But as far as I was concerned, it actually makes me less driven. And, and more at ease with just doing things that I like to do. And not always having to be I mean, I’ve got a very strong sort of leadership. Urge, shall we say, I, it’s always been something about me that I like to I like to run the show, or least run the show with people who I understand and get, but now I’m very much I can just be part of a team, which is actually a different it’s a different viewpoint for me, really, and I’m finding it surprisingly rewarding. I don’t have to be in charge.
Nadine Powrie [19:13]
Yeah, you’ve learned, I mean, in a way we’ve all learned to let go. And it’ll be tough. Because being a leader on zoom on teams, and being a leader, a face to face leader, isn’t the same thing, whatever we say. I mean, we’ve, we’ve done both, and we’ve worked with clients around the world, you know, on Zoom and on teams, and it isn’t the same thing not at all, then the face to face, the presence, the body language, you know. And now it’s quite interesting because we’ve actually relearning how to be face to face, aren’t we? And we are navigating all those new rules that we have to To abide by. And yet we are discovering almost a new type of leadership onto a because more than ever, we have to think about health and safety. And also, when you have a leader, and you have to think about it more than ever, now we have to navigate it. And we have to navigate the rules, the regulation, the policies, and all of that. And, you know, it does make you think differently and behave differently as well.
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, what sort of different behaviors have you seen? I mean, we’ve both been part of a team over the past week, which has been really interesting, what differences have you seen in the way people are with each other now? Do you think people have changed fundamentally in the way that they contribute to a team or the way they’ve been a part of a team or how they treat people?
Nadine Powrie [20:51]
I think one of the one of my observation, and certainly now, the way, I think, is that if I tried to minimize the number of contact that I have with people, so where before, I would have gone and gone to ask a number of things, I’m a lot more. Watch. I’m talking, I’m thinking in French at the moment, and I don’t know why. But I’m I’m a lot more conscious or conscious. How many times I am going to come to them physically. To, to ask them, you know, a list of things that I need, I really try to I think I’ve probably changed the way I work to minimize certain face to face, you know, if I can just have one. And just a one, you know, I think that’s the first thing physically in the room. I’m very conscious about the one meter regulation, you know, I’m very conscious about the three in the taxi. I mean, because we’re in Dubai. So all of that is made me change, and behave differently for sure. What about you, Jenny?
I think I have to keep reminding myself, I feel I’ve got sloppy, I feel that I keep forgetting about the two meters. And I’m listening to what you’re saying about minimizing contact. And then I was thinking about a team of a few people going out each day into taxis, but changing round who were in the taxis, which if we’d really stopped to think about it, we should have all been in the same taxi each time. Although I do feel that there’s a certain safety because we’re being tested so regularly. And you know, going into any kind of building schools or libraries or hotels, then you’re getting your temperature taken regularly. And it’s not a difficult thing. It doesn’t require any, any contact. And I think I again, I find that reassuring. But I think I’ve got to be careful not to be too reassured, because it’s a very real thing out there.
Nadine Powrie [23:06]
Yeah. Do you think that the way we have learned to speak to people on Zoom and on teams has affected how we talk now when we are face to face with people?
Do you mean talking and enunciating clearly? Yes. I mean, I think you’ll find I find that anyway, when you’re working in an international team. That certainly, the team tends to be Arabic and English speaking. And I think that we all as English speakers will, will moderate how we speak to people if it’s if it’s not English as a first language. And that’s in a way, almost like how you, you you enunciate more clearly when you’re on Zoom. So there’s a bit of the same sort of skill there, I think. But I think that it’s, it’s, you can tell that people work internationally, because they talk much more easily. But, yeah, I mean, I find it I find it all fascinating. And I think we’ve reflected, looking back on this week, and thought about the things that have changed and things that are better. And the things that perhaps aren’t so good. What would you say was the positives that have come out for you that are better now than they were before?
Nadine Powrie [24:26]
I think I’m a lot I don’t take there’s a number of things that I don’t take for granted. I’m a lot more alert. So I was a you know, as an excellent teacher, I was always alert to health and safety risk assessments. You know, I was driven by those plans. You know, everything was always in place. But I’m a lot more conscious. It’s not an obsession. Yeah. It’s, it’s really there. I think about it a lot. And so, so there is that I’m a lot more aware of the rules that we have to follow, you know, different countries we have. It’s different in different countries. So when, depending on which time zone you are you learning about the rules and the regulation, which is, which is important. And also, you know, how you can exercise, how you can protect people, how you can exercise your duty of care, I think it’s more than ever important. Because we all taking a risk by traveling, aren’t we? I mean, you and I, we know we’ve we’ve both been, we both had the two jobs, and yet we have a lot of people who do get COVID. So we’re still not 100% immune against it. And we are not at risk by traveling, there is absolutely no doubt about it. Right? And one of the question is, that I was asked is why why do you want to do that? Why do you want to travel when you could get home and work from home and just, you know, stay in the UK? Well, if I say, given the work that we are doing, despite the fact that we’re not going to go in depth with what we are doing, I think that we still need to continue to do the work that we are doing. And we still need to, you know, have some kind find some kind of normality of going back on site. And actually, you know, be on site, I think that’s very important. And if we take all the precautions, if we are abiding by the rules, and you know, then we minimize the risk, we are never protected. That’s one thing for sure. But I think to make a difference in the world to try to, you know, support people who need our help and our expertise, and you know, our talents and everything else. We maybe it’s very good. Well, I’m gonna say, but I think it’s, you know, it’s, it’s worth taking the risk, given that I’ve done everything I could to protect myself. I mean, there’s anything else I can do, you know, I’m going to get my serve job. When I get back to England. I’m very conscious about what I must do. And I do you know, all of those things I fully respect. But I think it’s important to, for me, it’s important to go back to supporting those people who
there’s, there’s a lot of purpose isn’t there, that that’s behind and underpins what we do. Yeah, it’s been a kind of war. For me anyway, I feel it’s been in quite an egocentric existence. And I do have a lot, you know, years and years of expertise that is, is, has been lying dormant. And it’s really nice to be able to feel that you can come here and actually have an impact on what’s happening. So, yeah, it is rewarding. And I think, you know, sometimes you think when the chips are down, you’ve been working really, really hard. And you think, why am I still doing this? And I think that there is a sort of self doubt, because it was quite, you know, it was quite a brave decision, in some ways to decide to go, yes, because there are no guarantees. I think our we’ve talked about this, it’s that horror is that we ended up being in quarantine in a hotel room on your own for 10 days, which would not be good. And I think that we’ve made that decision to calm and we have calm, and I think that there are great joys in what we do, that are still coming through. And I think that’s why we do what we do. I mean, I certainly haven’t regretted coming out. But it was touching going onstage, whether this was something I was prepared to take a risk. But actually, I think it’s much less of a risk than I thought it would be. And I think like I find that quite reassuring.
Nadine Powrie [29:02]
Yeah, I mean, you know, I’m not a scientist, and on the balance of probability getting getting COVID While we’re in the UK, is I’ve been getting COVID While we’re here, I don’t know, you know, the difference in risk, I have to say, but I think that it’s good to be back here for sure. It’s good to see our colleagues, it’s good to see our friends because you and I we have a lot of friends here. And it’s good to be back in and making, making a difference and making a difference and navigating a post pandemic where we can, you know, hopefully, and maybe, you know, I’m speaking out of turn, but maybe where we can build a better world you know, because, well, our children, the children of the future generation, which will have experienced huge Diversity over the past over the last two years, we are helping move forward. And for me personally, it’s really important. Yeah, it’s worth, it’s worth the risk. But we are looking after the risk that we are taking.
Yes, yeah, I think we’ve both made that decision. I mean, we talked about it quite a lot before we came out. Because it wasn’t necessarily something that we did without really thinking about the implications.
Nadine Powrie [30:34]
Yes. I’m just going to plug in my computer. Losing Yeah. I’m about to lose them. Yes.
Yeah, but I am. Yes. I mean, the moral purpose independence at all. And I think that I think that if people are working internationally, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t put them off, I think certainly flying is seems pretty safe. In terms of the fact that you have to prove that you haven’t got COVID to get on a plane is quite reassuring, so that if you are too close to somebody, certainly within two days before that they’ve had a negative PCR test. So I think we weighed the risks about CES quite carefully. But I think that we’re also conscious that we need to be more aware of each other, not just you and I but other people as well, in terms of well being and just making sure that the people that we’re with our Okay, are okay. And I think also actually the team, the teams that we work with have been been, you know, very experienced. But I think that anybody coming out working out in this way, for the first time, I think would perhaps find it more of a challenge. But I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say no, on that one stage, I thought I’ll never get on a plane again. But I’m glad I did. And actually it was it was fine. It was fine.
Nadine Powrie [31:51]
So Jenny, we said that today, we will talk about, you know, what can we do? What can you do to make working internationally safe and successful? Again, if you had to give one piece of advice to you know, the people who are listening to us, what would you say?
One piece of advice that I was kind of expecting you to say that and now that you’ve said, I can’t really think of the answer. I’ll flip it back to you, what would you offer? What would your advice be, and then I’ll have a think about what my might be.
Nadine Powrie [32:22]
My advice would be that providing you are taking all the necessary steps to for yourself, that it’s okay to stop traveling, you know, providing that you’ve had your vaccination, and that you are fully aware of the risk assessment, you know, in the country in which you are traveling. Yes, the compliance, the logistics of everything. And providing that, you know, that roadmap, you know, of what’s going to happen once you get to the airport and, and the hotel and the organization where you are working and the people around you, providing you aware of all of that. I think it’s okay. To make a decision. I think it’s, it’s giving you enough to make the decision to make an informed decision. Yeah, to travel and then to enjoy it. You know, because there is no point traveling and working abroad again, if you live in fear of getting COVID all the time. I mean, that is a no, no, I’ve not thought of that, despite the fact that every morning when I get into a building and asking NHS COVID vaccination, I don’t think about it as a danger, I have to say, but providing you’re aware of all of that, and you abide by the rules, then, you know, go for it, and is the most of it. And and I think it’s it’s really nice to be back and seeing people which is
it is and I think thinking about what you’re saying it can sort of be encapsulated and do your research. And make sure that you’ve found out everything that you need to find out and then make that that decision, as you’ve just said.
Nadine Powrie [34:06]
Okay, Jenny, well, thank you very much for coming on my LinkedIn live, it was not planned at all. We’ve been talking for about 35 minutes. So we’re going to go for dinner now. Because it’s it’s nearly 7pm in in Dubai time. So thank you very much, everybody for hanging, just watching us and talking about traveling successfully and safely around the world. And we are looking forward to be back on doing LinkedIn live a lot more often. And yes, thank you, Jenny for being here with me tonight.
Thank you, Nadine. Thank you. Do you take care. Bye.
Nadine Powrie [34:43]
Thank you, Jenny. Bye bye bye