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LinkedIn Live The changing face of student opportunities: Where do we go from here?

Ten take-aways from this session:

  1. We are not defined by what we have studied
  2. Have access to the world
  3. Have the power to change the world
  4. Be surrounded by people you want to be with
  5. Know your values
  6. Be open to non-academic skills
  7. There are always other options out there
  8. Define what makes you happy
  9. Catch up with your friends and make sure they’re OK
  10. Try to ‘do nothing’

***The following transcript has been automatically generated and is presented here unchecked***


LinkedIn Live The changing face of student opportunities_ Wh…

Fri, 8/19 7:28AM • 1:05:04


people, pandemic, charlie, job, life, generation, thinking, happiness, necessarily, millennials, andy, natalie, traveling, happy, teacher, opportunities, world, values, andrew, university



And we are live. Very good afternoon to everybody. My name is Nadine Powrie. I’m an executive and leadership coach, workplace mediator and doctoral researcher. Oh,



yeah, I did that.



Hi guys. My name is Charlie Potter. I’m a student recruitment officer at the University of Stirling.



Hello, my name is Natalie Sweeney. I’m also a student recruitment officer at the University of Stirling as well and I’m from the west coast of Scotland.



Hi, I’m Jenny Ling. I’m a leadership development consultant specializing in developing and delivering leadership programs and mentoring senior leaders, predominantly in schools.



And this is Andy cook.



Sorry, for that I had some camera issues there. It’s okay. It’s what slide is about actually.



Yep, exactly. Obviously, I’ve been on Zoom calls all day, and then the cameras just decided to stop working. So that was



so I’m a Senior Marketing Officer at Fairview international school in pregabalin.



John Danes, I’m done in sunny Gloucestershire, and I’m a educator consultant, doing some leadership support, some quality control stuff and some school improvement. So it’s great to be here. Thanks ever so much. Brilliant. Yeah. Okay. Well, I’m very excited about today. And I’m just going to explain the why we’ve chosen to have three Millennials today, for those who’ve been watching us. And well, first of all, thank you, because we know that we’re starting to get a very loyal audience. Last week, we did, we did a LinkedIn live with three students from Kean University and UCL and they belong to generation Zed. And we thought that it would be quite interesting, actually, this week to have three different



generation, while three different persons people from a different generation, just to understand if actually, generations do exist. And I’m saying that because I’ve watched the TED Talk, that’s one of you advise me to watch with Leah, George, and Leah George, she’s a social psychologist. And she’s challenging a lot of people with the fact that actually perhaps generation don’t exist. And perhaps we’re just human. And that’s the way it is. So it’s going to be very interesting today to have a conversation and for people to just make their mind and to decide whether indeed, you know, generations do exist or do not exist. So thank you to whoever pass on the link to me. Now, when Nia was doing a TED talk, she said something quite interesting about your generation. She said they are pragmatic, determined, and they think they are going to change the world.



Wow. Let’s start with that. So I guess my question is, how are you going to change the world?






start with the big question.



Well, first of all, yeah, we have, we have access to the world. You know, we have we have the internet. So in some ways, we’ve grown up being able to, you know, reach out globally. And we also have not currently the pandemic, obviously, but, you know, ease of travel to anywhere in the world as well. I know that a couple of Andrew and Charlie have been traveling and working abroad as well. So I guess we already have that mindset that we can perhaps impact something a lot bigger than just our society right around us as well.



Yeah, definitely an off that. I think it’s also with travel and meeting people. And it’s kind of experience different cultures and working with different people and the accessibility to it as well, I think.



But yeah, it’s a big question.



You didn’t expect that.



You shouldn’t have given me the link. I blame you. Right.



Same Natalie.



And do anything you want to add? Yeah, I think we’re, I think we’re all for the mindset that we have to change errors that have happened in the past. And not that I’m saying there’s been a lot of errors in the past, but obviously, like the climate, the global climate. Now, I know obviously, it does a lot of work with this, and she’ll talk a hell of a lot more than I will. But you know, I think our generation is of the rate



Why are we not recycling everything? Why? Why do we need to drive everywhere? What can wait? Why can we not start walking, or cycling and doing things like that? So I think that’s just a very small aspect of changing the world. But that that would change the world, obviously, significantly, if we were able to achieve something with that.



Do you think then Dean’s question actually reflects the reality? You know, do you agree that you are a generation that’s going to change the world?



Well, I mean, it’s actually it’s definitely something I think, you know, it’s always it’s an ambition, I guess, to be able to change the world. One of the biggest things for me, I think, is the education that we get from just being more connected globally, and seeing that people are just people, people are different, but they’re just people at the end of the day, everyone’s human. And I think there’s a lot of things that have happened in history that are quite scary. And I think that it’s something that every generation is really passionate about. This is obviously a sweeping statement, but quite passionate about just bringing people together as one, particularly around what Andrew said about the climate change. It’s something I’m really passionate about, and I work quite a lot in. And it’s something just, that’s just hit me, I think, over the last few years is just why are we continued to do things that are harming people around us and our own planet. And we have the power to change it. So I think that’s what we realized, we if we all came together, we could change what’s happening. And I think that’s where my own personal, let’s change the world attitude comes from,



do you think do you think you have a



I completely identify with what with what you’re saying, I’m former baby boom generation born in the 60s, me, but so.



And I, I completely share those desires, I’m wondering what it is that you guys have, other than



age and energy,



that that makes you so positive with regard to the fact that you are going to make a difference? I don’t mean. So I’m not saying that, with any sort of trying to dampen you down at all, it’s kind of completely the opposite of just trying to tease out what it is that’s happened to you, that makes you so convinced that, you know that it resonates with you, and you’ve got the experiences that that we need globally, what do you what would you say? I think that like,



it’s just been kind of, you know, advertised that it’s going to impact our generation so heavily.



And then, you know, the generations that are after us, it’s going to impact them, and then you know, their kids and then their kids and, and so it’s like, Well, okay, if it’s if it’s going to impact us directly, then what can we do to stop it and, and make a change. And that’s what makes me think, like, we don’t have any other option, we just have to make that change. It’s not the case that we’re all have this mindset that oh, yeah, I’m going to wake up tomorrow, and I’m going to change the world. And that’s going to be it. But it’s actually just the case that we have to change the world. And that’s, that’s it, and then it’s and then it’s not necessarily just about climate change as well, it’s political landscapes as well. And you will have to look over in America and think what is going on over there and I’ve got a lot of American friends who are you know, at the time when when the voting was going on, and then after the rescue to leave their their homes because of all the violence that was going on? And just think, like, something something really needs to change there as well because that’s not that’s not okay for people to hate on each other because they have a different different political view or a different they were brought up a different way it’s



your world shouldn’t be like that. Yeah, you say we have to change the world. So does it mean at the back of your mind that you have a specific contribution to make to the world I



don’t think it’s necessarily specific but it’s kind of having that positive attitude that we can do it and if we do it together that there is still time going back to kind of like climate change and stuff that there is still time obviously the BBC of doing loads of stuff with I kind of like the the TV shows and stuff at the moment it’s showing there is still time to kind of fix things like that and we’ve kind of have the attitude that okay, if we do it now and we can do it there’s a community together that we can do it and we can do it for the best for the next generations as well. I think it’s all about mindset. Awesome.



Yeah. So So So how am i Have you have you thought Have you thought to the next stage you know what, what’s the with the how, how are you going to go about this? How are you going to get people like me to fall a lot of fall into step and and to do to be doing the right things?



In the present tense, what are you doing now? Yeah, yeah. You



Yeah, I think I think there’s definitely, I’ve done a lot of work in, like, the climate change area and the but it’s not necessarily My only interest. But there’s two different streams of like, what is an ambition? And what can I personally do, because one person cannot do everything. And it just doesn’t work like that. It’s not how change would come about, but you can still make a significant change on your own. For me, personally,



I am challenging people a lot on societal norms. So for me, I’ve been very lucky, where I’ve grown up, I’ve not felt held back by being a woman.



You know, I see around me people, being part of the LGBT community that are, you know, welcomed into workplaces and things like that. For me, it is just constantly pushing back on those societal norms that if you you’re not expected to be, you know, married children at a certain age, you don’t have to follow a certain path. And I think that’s something that millennials, not all millennials, but potentially have had a little bit more freedom and where they can potentially follow a path of their own, and not necessarily what society expects. And that’s what I personally do is I’m always pushing back on, on views and opinions that come at me that are perhaps restrictive to people. And I guess it’s just about challenging people, which I do my own family a lot. All the time, is caused a lot of arguments during locked in that kind of thing. I guess that’s what I’m doing as an individual is just, if I see something that I don’t necessarily agree with, that I’m pushing back and having not necessarily arguing but having that conversation and throwing it back of saying, Well, why are we doing things like that? And often there’s not actually a good reason.



Yeah. Really interesting. Yeah. Do you think that it’s character strengths? Because not I mean, I sense it right. We’re quite far away in terms of mice. But I sense your determination and your courage to want to do something to make a difference? Do you think it’s down to character strength?



Well, there’s a lot of stereotypes about millennials, about, you know, the job hoppers and people that they’re maybe got a small



sense of attention span, for example, but I personally see those like negative characteristics that people pin on Millennials as actually ever responses to societal change. So like, for example, the digital age means there’s a lot more short term fixed term jobs. So people don’t necessarily go into a career right away. There’s house prices that are just shooting through the roof. So millennials are more commonly living with parents they’re renting, they’ve just not get that stability, necessarily in their life that perhaps generations above had, so that those



societal changes mean that I think we are potentially a lot more ready to spend a lot of plates and potentially look for different opportunities. And I think that character strength is potentially what brings that out in us.



So are you saying that you’ve actually on the one hand, you’ve got more freedom, because you’re not conforming to societal norms, but on the other hand, you’re lacking the stability? And how is that not having that stability? Is that a positive thing? Because you’re not tied down too soon? Or is it something thinking, oh, you know, where’s my next job will roll coming from? Is that a positive or negative? Do you think? I think it can probably be both? And I think it goes, again, depends on how you look at it. I think it definitely can be a positive because you can be like, well, if I’m not being tied down here, that means I could go anywhere. I could take this job down there, I could move across the other side of the world I could kind of the world’s your oyster kind of thing. But I guess then there is that, that negativity of being like, well, what if I do want to settle, but I don’t feel like I have necessarily a place somewhere, but then it brings it back. But you could be anywhere you could do anything. And I think it’s having that kind of outlook on the world of being like, actually, it’s okay if we don’t have that. And I remember talking to my dad when he was trying to get me to buy a house. And he was like, Well, why are you just renting? Like, I just don’t understand it. And it’s because he’d bought a house when he was 21. And that’s what you did. And it was kind of like, but what if I want to leave what if I want to go traveling again, or there’s kind of that different mindset in the end of this buy a house because he kind of talked around the positives to it, but it’s also more thinking actually, I could rent it out and go and it was kind of again, turning a positive on to not necessary a negative situation because obviously buying a house that’s a great investment into life, but it’s also thinking, I’m not completely tied down here. I still have that freedom to kind of do what I want and change jobs and move if I wanted to as well.



Yeah, and uh, you got you’ve got a family. Haven’t you got young family? or what have you? Yeah. So yeah, four month old child, two dogs. And in the process of moving from a flat into our, into our house and me. So that’s a very stressful thing. But well, I wasn’t a property owner until I was 29. And



we’ve only had this flat for just over a year. And then obviously, we’re now moving into our second property pretty quickly. So not only Job Hopper, but also house hopper.



And I was I was, I was wondering if



they’re thinking picking up Charlie’s point. I mean, I was very aware when I was a young man with a young family that that I needed to provide for them. I mean, that’s a that’s a interesting attitude, isn’t it? You know, where’s that come from? where it’s come from my grandparents and parents and, and so I wouldn’t have? I wouldn’t? Yeah, I would have been very reluctant, it would have been a massive thing for me to move jobs and move. But you’ve you’ve you guys are somehow and distinctly mentioned it to Andy, because you’ve got a family. And yet you’ve seemed to have a really positive attitude to moving around and finding tracking opportunities. Yeah. And also, I’m not the breadwinner in the family, either, which is, yeah, which is more and more common these days, actually.



I think it’s, it’s quite stereotypical to be like, Oh, well, the man of the house should earn the more salary my wife’s fully qualified teacher, and has been teaching since she left university at 21. So she’s been she’s had that career. Whereas obviously, I studied music technology and left university not knowing what I was good at, and then obviously had to find my feet along the way. So that was, obviously my own personal challenge and education Post University, which was figuring out what I was good at. And I feel like I’ve kind of narrowed into my niche, but I only only found out what I was good at, because of the job hopping. And that was, you know, I’ve done.



I’ve done various roles, like, you know, customer service stuff, I’ve done sales, and then sales and marketing and then recruitment. And then I was like, Okay, I really enjoyed the marketing side. And I enjoyed the recruitment side, and the sales side. So that’s all kind of tied into what I’m doing just now. And my current role.



Let’s see,



Jenny, go, go. I’m just listening to what you’re saying. And actually thinking back to my own sort of early years, so to speak. I mean, I think he really is, I know, horrified. But you know, for me, I’d actually up my career path is very similar to yours, because I job hot, and, and place hot all throughout my 20s. And when I was 29, I actually realized that from the jobs that I’ve done, it kind of focused me into becoming a teacher. So I didn’t qualify as a teacher till I was 29. And even then I hopped jobs, because those were in the days where there weren’t enough children. And there were too many teachers, basically. So for about three or four years, I couldn’t get a permanent job, because you could only apply for permanent job if you have one. So I would say that for the first sort of 1215 years of my career, I was very much in this situation that you guys were in but without the confidence. And the belief that this is where I wanted to be I was there because I was there, not necessarily because I wanted to be. And so although I was doing the same sort of thing, I didn’t have the same confidence and courage that you guys are showing. I think it’s something that we’ve learned through my college degrees as well, because all of us did non vocational degrees. So added fashion and business like Andy said, he did music and Natalie did English. And so I think with those degrees, there’s not an obvious job to go into unless it was so you’re going to be a teacher and we’re like, no, because there’s got to be other things out there other than teaching and everyone in my family is a teacher and that was expected what was going to happen. And I was like, no want to break the norm or do something else. And I think that confidence has also been kind of grown through that kind of those years at university and kind of enjoying a subject but not necessarily knowing what it’s going to lead us to but just picking up on skills and experiences kind of through those three or four years at uni and then come to the job well that okay, well what skills are like, Okay, let’s go and try that for a bit and like candies, then he’s tried out different things to see. Okay, I’ve really narrowed down eventually what I want to do.



Sorry, yeah, I just find it totally



superb. I’m just trying not to use the word amazing. I find it I find it superb that you you’ve all got a different career paths. I mean, Charlie, you’re going to be starting your first job.



Not only you’ve had six job, and Andrew during COVID, you’ve changed job twice, sorry.






So, you know, that shows that you are curious that you are happy to take risk that you are courageous. I mean, this is pretty stunning, you know, to look at that and think that what, six, seven years ago you were still at uni? Yeah.



And you’ve already, you’ve already got several jobs on your CV, you’ve acquired new knowledge, new skills, you’ve got lots of experience.



I mean, congratulation games, because



impressive. And it’s up to you. It’s up because you’ve failed that you had to do that, or is that because you just are you kind of exploiting an opportunity or the opportunities? Or was I just find it really easy? Just we’re sort of trying to tease out?



Why yes, yeah. No, I want to know, well, actually, similarly to what Charlie said, because I studied English, I think people assume that I was going to become an English teacher. And also, I have the glasses. So I look like a teacher.



What stereotyping.






I, it wasn’t something that I, I actually chose English because I knew that I enjoyed it. And I actually thought a teacher would be a good job that I could go into later in life, perhaps if that’s something I wanted to do. So that’s why I did my foundation degree in English. But it wasn’t something. It’s not something that I’m like, passionate about, necessarily at the moment. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do. So I literally just jumped on any opportunities that I got, and all opportunities that I got, were actually from doing and part time jobs and networking. Well, I was at university people that I met. So communication has been literally the biggest reason just making sure that you’re standing out and put yourself out there. And on a different note to Charlie and Andy who have had slightly more stable living arrangements. Just in case this is of interest, I actually have never owned or rented a property I, I was living in a b&b for four years. While I worked, because I meant I could leave at any point. And what I value is freedom and the the opportunity to should an opportunity come up anywhere, I am ready to go and get it at any point. But that’s perhaps more of a personal value. Because on the flip side of that, you do have, I think, more perhaps anxiety around the fact that maybe you don’t know what you’re doing next week, or you don’t have a totally stable living environment as well. So it’s, I think there’s definitely going back to what you said about the pros and cons of the millennial lifestyle. I think the cons definitely would be potentially, you know, you can technically work around the clock, because everything’s online, when do you switch off? And then that’s potentially also why there’s a lot more focus on mental health now, which has perhaps been teased out by Millennials as well in the workplace, because they have perhaps had that instability.



Least that instability is is an underlying factor in mental health and mental health challenges. I think it could definitely be a factor. I think it’s personal. But I think that as much as it’s a massive, it’s a massive value for me to have more freedom, it’s also, you know, it can be worrying as well, of sometimes it’s just nice to have, you know, something a little bit more stable. But then, for me, I would still prioritize having my freedom, so and you know, ability to do whatever I want. And that’s definitely something that I have potentially a little bit more than other people as well as a little bit more extreme.



Around Bnbs, Natalie, or do you tend to



and it was perfect, and I never left it.



Yeah, I never had a contract. I could just I just rented a room and



it literally means that I could just I could do whatever I wanted. So that’s going to lower the anxiety associated with that kind of, you know, you’re you’re kind of almost, it almost sounds like you’re painting a picture of an itinerant lifestyle but you’re not really because you are you are sort of settled. It’s just that you’re settled in a very flexible living situation. Yeah.






interesting concept ChaLean. Andrew, do you want to share your values and see what they are like, compared to Natalie?



Charlie can go first. Oh, thanks.



Yeah, I was sitting when you asked us to sit and have a little bit of every thought what my values were, and I was kind of went away. And I was kind of thinking about it. And I think, for me, especially, optimism is really, really important. Like I am one of the most positive people that you’ll meet. It’s very annoying if people because I always find a positive in any situation. And that’s always my aim. And I think that’s really, really key. Another value of mine is kind of happiness and kind of that friendship side of things. Like I just want to be happy in what I’m doing. I want to be surrounded by people that I want want with me and stuff like that. So I think that’s also really key. And I think the other things I like, I think it’s like honesty and fairness. And



I don’t I don’t like it when people lie. I’m sure a lot of people don’t like that. But it’s something that I really don’t like, and I want, I want it to be fair situation for everyone, I think.



Yeah, I don’t know. It’s one of those things that that’s what I I hate being environment, when people where it’s a nasty environment, I just want it to be a nice place to work and live and stuff like that, and at least laughing because you know, it’s



a nice place to work. Because Charlie and I work together. Yeah, thank you.



But they’re really important to me, it’s all about kind of that positive, nice environment, and being surrounded by people that I love and want to be and I kind of work well with a thing. And I think that’s reflected a lot of my friends and family, because they are also similar to me in that aspect as well. So surround people with that, because one thing I really struggle with is kind of doubting my own abilities and my lack of confidence. And then I think fat and surrounding myself with those kinds of people in those situations really support me and kind of think, come on, Charlie, no, you can do this. And that then pushes me to be better and to apply for new jobs and to be open to other opportunities as well. I think,



Wow, I love your I love your positivity and the happiness, I feel we’re in a happy world in our world with the six of us at the moment.



It’s the language, isn’t it? It’s how you’re translating your values into everyday language. And you’ve just said, I’m an optimistic and I like happiness. And the way you are, you know, the way you are speaking, it’s very contagious, I feel it as well. So thank you.



And Andrew, what about you? So my, similarly I had to go in, I actually asked my wife, I was like, What am I? What are my values, like, I’m not sure, but like the one that the one that’s kind of stuck with me from that conversation was loyalty. And, like, loyalty for me is works both ways. And I know, it’s maybe a bit of a dodgy one to bring up as a Job Hopper.



Maybe not showing a huge amount of loyalty to an organization, but I feel I feel like I have



I have this thing where, you know, I will show all my loyalty to you if you show all your loyalty to me. And, you know, I’ll give an example where I won’t name drop the company. But I worked for this company after I graduated university part time. And I was picking up extra shifts, you know, as of when I could, because I was wanting to to show my passion for working for that company. And I was promised a full time contract after my probation, which was six months. So six months came and went. And they said, Look, we’re really sorry, but we don’t have a full time contract. I was like, that’s fine. Like, I’m still happy to stay here. And, you know, I’ll continue to pick up all these extra shifts, it then got to a point where my wife and I kind of moved in together and everything started to you know, I wasn’t earning enough money basically to live. So I got to a point where I had to make that decision, right, I need to get this job up, and I need to, to, to then move on to something else, which is full time. And, you know, guaranteed contracts and things like that, because we’re we’re planning our lives together.



And the week after I feel team contracts became available at that company. And one of my friends got it and said and said that, you know, it was almost as if they were waiting for me to leave, which was, which was unfortunate, obviously wasn’t the case. But it was just really unfortunate timing, but I felt like, you know, had the had the, you know, found that full time contract the week before then, of course, I would have stayed there because they eventually shown loyalty to me. And then another another kind of case study for that as well. When I was working out in Dubai, I worked at a startup company, and I joined because I just had this really good feeling about the country.



And I just felt I could feel the passion from, from the CEO and the CRO and things I was like this, this company is really going to take off. But as a start up didn’t have a lot of money and the start me on a on a contract, which paid



very little it covered my petrol contract my petrol expenses, basically. And that was it. But I stayed there for just over a year and a half. And in that year and a half, I progressed with the company. So obviously me showing loyalty to them, they show showed loyalty and trust in me. And at the end, I was running two teams at the company eventually, which was like, unbelievable growth and in such a short space of time, but that’s obviously startup life. And that’s just how the startup companies work is.



Andy, very much what you were saying you put a LinkedIn post up earlier on today. Yeah. With two diagrams, can you just explain those two? Because I think it reflects very much what you’ve just said.



Yeah, so I’m thinking up, because I can’t remember what it was.



It was figuring success, Andy. Exactly. So it was measuring success. So basically, the it was, it was like how you’re told to measure success in a pie chart. And it’s 50% as your as your salary and 50% Is your job title. But like, that’s just, that’s just what you’re told as, as you know, through through the media or through, you know, growing up, this is, this is what you have to do, you have to achieve, you know, this status by the time you turn 30. And then you have to be a managing person. And by the time you turn 35, you have to be a director by the time you turn 40, and things like that. Everything’s linked to this job title, but it’s just like a vanity metric. And I just feel like, actually, so long as you’re happy, like, it doesn’t really, really matter, you know, what your job title is, what your salary is, so long as you can live within your means, then surely, you’re going to be totally fine. And the second pie chart basically included that a quarter



on it, or, in fact, yeah, I’ve got it here. So a quarter of the pie chart is made up by mental health, a quarter of the pie charts, physical health, a large chunk is leaking, what you do



a large chunk is also free time because



especially now that I have a young family, I want to have as much free time when spare time to spend with them as possible. And then the two smallest Slivers are actually the job take on the salary. So my mum always told me that, you know, money doesn’t make you happy. So that’s, I think that’s so true.



I found that I found that absolutely fascinating. It was the sum the simplicity of that, and my my reply to that post, if I’ve got it, if I remember correctly, was along the lines of



I don’t think I don’t I mean, I’ve been I’ve been a teacher, and I certainly haven’t ever talked about this, I haven’t if I have people I’ve taught I’m really sorry. So I completely disagree.



But I think something that we kind of imbibe just sort of seeps into us as a societal norms are affecting us. I think that’s hugely,



hugely dangerous. And maybe maybe sort of linking the early bit of conversation that we had with regard to the the power and the potential that your generation have compared with mine is that you are not willing to be



put into those boxes where you’re measured by salary and, and title.



And understand the VAT the value of those other other other things as well. I mean, I just think that’s something that could be learned and conveyed so so easily, I think it really affects our youngsters in schools now, a lot of mental health issues with students and in schools now. And that strikes me one of the reasons being because in, in, in, in certain schools, you’re only a success if you’ve got these grades and these marks and, you know, whether that whether that’s communicated explicitly or implicit, it isn’t helping. So I thought that was a really fascinating thing to do. Yeah. Yeah.



Sorry, go on Andrew. No, I would just want to wish just to add on to that is, you know, talking about getting, you know, straight A’s at school and things like that, like, it’s fantastic if you can, if you can do it. And again, the entire time I was at school or university. I graduated with a two two and



you know, what worked really, really hard to get to where I am just now, but you know, the hard work doesn’t stop, you know, or start when you’re at school. You know, it’s just a continual. You know, you have to continue to maintain that work ethic all the way through, but it’s only a little tiny weeny weeny part of of you, the dog, I chart and you know, turn



And to inflate that, which is what is, which happens too often to inflate that academic side of things, and then use that as the measure



of how successful you are. Because it really disadvantaged people who aren’t academic. And it’s



fantastic, because they have 10 times other skills that these academic people have, which been much more successful in the workplace or will push them in a different direction, I think lately, yeah, the big thing I really just wanted to solve, and I really hope that education develops, I hope it’s one of the things that comes out of this global pandemic is a real rethink. We talked about our reset in terms of education,



and a real re rethink with regard to provokes that. So that so that we actually get something really positive out of that. And maybe I’m taking this in a slightly different direction. But I just feel quite important, though, John, isn’t it? I think that, well, I mean, I’m an ex primary head teacher, and one of my biggest battles with my values was level four, you know, in that everybody was expected to reach level four by year six. Now I taught my school was quite a tough school. And there were kids there who had come into school, who had virtually no linguistic skills, some of them weren’t even toilet trained. And to get to a level four, which is like the one that everybody has to get to whether they come in at level three, reception or not, and the progress that some of my kids made, and the success that they had, from a very low starting point to me, deserved a much more much more praise and recognition than somebody who came in with a supportive family whose level fours like falling off a log. Yeah, I think that even at primary level, the the emphasis on that level four,



was was totally wrong. And I, I, you know, I set my head above the parapet a few times, as you can imagine, and actually argued against this, because I wanted the recognition that my kids were doing, okay, because they come into school every day, no matter what was happening at home, you know, they’ve managed to sit reasonably still and to participate and make progress. And that deserved a medal, not the level for adding to that is a hope. And I think there was a change of that, that university isn’t for everyone, and that there are lots of other options out there. And I know, as recruiters, when we go out, we, we obviously are there to promote the university. That’s what we talked about. But also, it’s having that conversation with that student and be like, actually, this is not the right route for you. Like, there’s other things that you should be doing, because that will make you more successful in that way. And I think, again, it’s reevaluate, and it says resetting that kind of mindset, Jan, about what education is and what they’re trying to get out of it. And that we should all be pushed down that one road, because that’s what you should do it. Actually, there are other options out there for everyone. So, yeah, yeah, you know, I’m just listening to you talking. And I’m thinking about last week, I was three students. And I’m thinking I’ll borrow a bit from last week, I’ll borrow a bit from you. And if you have to the question from the beginning, you know, do generations does the concept exist? I move on. No, I feel like saying, Actually, I don’t think so. I mean, we’re just human being with our own values, and we just navigate life.



And as we age as well, because at the moment, you’ve got those very specific values. We don’t know if they will change. Well, you don’t know that yet. I know, given my age, that’s my values have changed in my career, not so much now.



But I’ve learned to define success in a very different way as well. So coming back to Andrew, your example of success for me when I was a head teacher, success was exam results, you know, and the night before I wouldn’t sleep, I’d be you know, because I wanted the best for those kids.



And one day, my coach said to me, okay, so put aside exam results and numbers, you know, what, what else could success look like? And she totally freaked me out. Because I thought, Oh, dear, I’m just defined by numbers.



And it took me quite a few years actually, to realize that success could be something very, very different because of experience and because also, on confidence, you are learning to be more confident and accepting that success can be different. It doesn’t have to be numbers.



And I love the happiness and optimism and among the



rang, if, you know, in the time that we are experiencing at the moment, if those values of, I just want to be happy, I, you know, I just want to have a good day for I just wanted those values, those values are kind of changing and being simplified,



where, you know, we don’t have to reach for the stars at the moment, we’re quite happy to just have something smaller, and we get through and it’s okay.






Don’t you think that? I agree completely? Don’t you think there’s a slight danger in that we, we dumbed down our expectations. I mean, I could have a lovely happy time by getting up, you know, 11 o’clock, and then coming over and a big breakfast, and then, you know,



being generally fairly lazy or not, but



but it was, it was a hollow, I think, I think what I’m saying is, I need my happiness, my happiness,



to be attached to something else.



Do you see what I mean? So, yeah, I see what you mean. But I also think that in life, we’re driven by things. And sometimes you can replace what you are being, you know, what drives you? I’m not a teacher anymore. But I’ve got other things in my life, you know, driving me in my business. So maybe, maybe I’ve swapped, you know, some things for others, but it doesn’t mean that I’ve lowered my standards have my, my drivers, I think they’re kind of different. And I’m thinking, and that’s okay. I don’t want to be to have the same drivers all my life, it’s okay to have those at that point. And then those are these points. And, but, but it’s not a question, it’s not a case of replacing them with happiness. It’s not like, well, all those motors are out the window. Now, I’m just going to concentrate on being happy. I think I think being happy is, is a philosophical concept. And I think that, to define happiness, you have to define unhappiness. Otherwise, you don’t know that you’re happy.



Like you anyway.



Drivers, drivers are linked to happiness. Because whatever your motivation is, John, your motivation might be absolutely that to stay in bed till 11, have a nice breakfast and then walk the dog that could be your driver is to do that. Whereas 10 years ago, your drivers would have been very different. But I think I think personally, as you get older, your drivers do change because you lose the the striving, I think that you have when you’re younger, maybe that’s just me, but don’t forget, Nadine, I’ve got a few years on you before.



I was gonna say I disagree with your journey. Because when we are out in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and you know, you, you, you are very, very driven. When I’m there, yes, yes. And to get that I am as well. But I’m also quite happy to sit back and do very little, because I don’t feel I have to do that all the time. Whereas I think when I was younger, I felt, you know, I had a, I had a family and I had a career. And I was juggling plates all the time. Now, I don’t think I was particularly happy doing that, because I have too many drivers. And I think that as you get older, and your children leave home, and you get more control of your life back, I personally I would link that to happiness in in, in older people, or in somebody by whatever however you want to phrase it. So So So Andrew Charney Anthony, what drives you?



Well, I was very interested in actually sorry,



you go first, you go first. No, I was just just talking about Dubai and things like that the drivers to, to move to Dubai and, you know, trying to start a new life abroad and things like that. Thinking back, you know, my wife and I were renting a flat as I said, you know, I was on this part time contract, and then I moved to a full time position, which was, again, minimum wage. So we really didn’t have a lot of money coming in, and we couldn’t save enough money to,



to, you know, put towards a deposit for a house because at the time, you know, you’re looking at 10 15% deposit for for a property and how can you how can you save for that in a couple of years, you know, you really need to



cut all the way back and not spend a single penny and so the driver for us to kind of move abroad was was money at the time. I don’t think money drives us now. I think, you know, we went to Dubai and with the idea that we were going to come back and buy a property we ended up coming back with two dogs and we still had to rent but



that was fine. And you know, obviously these these key metrics changed in our lives. You know, we decided that actually money money didn’t drive her happy.



is like, you know, rescue rescuing these two dogs from Dubai, we drove our happiness and we came back and we’re like, Okay, well, we’ll start again, like, it’s not, it’s not a problem, not saying we didn’t come back with any money at all, we came back with a little bit, but it wasn’t enough for, you know, a deposit for our so we still had to save. But we just think we went to Dubai thinking this is going to change our lives and, and we came back and we thought, Well, it did change our lives, because it was an amazing experience. And because we went there, we were able to travel and, you know, go see Abu Dhabi, which is a beautiful place, and, you know, travel further to like Thailand, and Singapore and Bali, and things like that. But



I think, you know, we came back and we kind of reassess. And we were like, actually, like, our happiness is just this little family that we’re making. And



we brought it we brought it all the way on.



It’s going back to your circles again, isn’t it is the first circle doesn’t do. That’s not gonna make a copy. Yeah, that’s really interesting. The pandemics been huge for me, because I was somebody who I mean, you wouldn’t see a space to my daily, Charlie and Andy will know this, I was out constantly, I’d get back at you know, 1am every single night.



Because I’m just I was obsessed with doing everything and anything. And I would say yes to everything, all opportunities, and I never stopped once. And I started to feel like I thought what I wanted was to be, you know, putting myself out there and getting involved in lots of situations. And it got to a point where I felt like, actually, I’m not happy anymore, because I feel like I’m doing everything and I’m doing nothing well. And then this pandemic came and it stopped everything. And I had excuses to stop everything for once. And this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity, I think for everybody.



And I



I’ve realized through this is I’ve actually taken a step back and gone.



My life was just whizzing away, it was just a year would pass. And I wouldn’t really realize it because I was just constantly so busy. So I think now I’ve had this opportunity to go back, what drives me is being good at something and producing quality, like having quality time producing quality work. You know, when I’m good with my because I do stand up comedy as well, really focusing on something a passion and rather than having like 18 passions, which is very me because I’m just always trying to learn new skills and things like that. But I think sometimes I spread myself too thin. And I want to pull it in. And I think that this pandemic as well has shown how important health is and actually, you know, and what Andy shared earlier, is something that I had not prioritized at all. I did not prioritize me until this pandemic and I think that’s something I’m going to take forwards is making sure I’ve got that time for physical mental health and, and also having that free time. Because I think it’ll make me perform better in every aspects. fascinate It is fun. Just tapping tapping into that. That side of Natalie’s with our stand up comedy and stuff. I actually remember you will remember this as well, Natalie, there was a time Natalie and I were out traveling in Northern Ireland. And she said that she’s going to do her own stand up show at the Edinburgh Fringe. And I was like, Oh my God, that’s fantastic. Like congratulations, like, what’s the process? And she said, Oh, well, I need to write a script and do this and do that. And I somehow just assumed the role of project manager. And I was like, right, okay, Natalie, I’m gonna put this in your calendar and your diary. You have to submit a script to me by this date. And if not, there’s going to be consequences. So the date came and passed. And I said that like, where’s the script? And she’s like, Oh, I’m really sorry, Charlie and I x hurling.



I was like, No. Focus on the task at hand. Had to donate 50 pounds to some charity. I can’t remember what it was. But yeah, Movember



mustache. That’s right. Yeah.



That’s a community. Isn’t it? supportive community? Yeah, definitely.



But not only you said something that really resonated with me. You said I didn’t



prioritize me until the pandemic. I think a lot of people across generation might say that actually. It’s only when you stop that you realize how fast you were going. Absolutely. And, you know, ultimately, we all have to be alive and to stay alive and speed is not necessarily better. Something you know. So do you do you feel the same Charlie and Andy about prioritizing theory? Oh.



Okay. Yeah, I think Sorry, I missed a bit of the conversation. So I think I’m a bit bit delayed.






I think I think especially with the pandemic, it’s obviously a presume that I said that it’s kind of slowed everything down that it was the busiest person that I ever knew. But it also kind of slowed me down as a person as well. And I didn’t think I was particularly busy, but it really makes you value kind of the small things in life. And I moved back with my parents just to see them for a bit. And it actually was a really nice time to kind of value that our family and kind of spending time with them as well. And also, obviously, we spent a lot of time traveling out on the road. And that’s really fast paced, and it’s part of the, the job that I absolutely love. And it’s a bit of a mess at the moment. But it also really made me have a routine because sometimes when we’re traveling, it’s hard to have that routine and I love an organized routine schedule and something I’d sometimes struggle with. So it was actually really nice having this routine. I know I’m working from home, I know what my week and my day and stuffs gonna look like.



Yeah, that’s good.



Oh, ribs when? Windows in Germany, yeah.



Okay, we saw we’d like to hear Johnny



Do you want to add something? Yeah, no, I think, you know, didn’t really value time until the pandemic, definitely. And, you know, my wife and I were expecting our baby, just before the pandemic. So we found out in February. And then I remember, I had my 30th birthday party in March. And



Natalie did a stand up comedy gig at my birthday party anyway. And



it was a surprise. Yeah, yeah, I just told her.



I said, I just



know, I just remember thinking like, or thinking back, like, that was literally the last week before everything shut down. And you know, we weren’t allowed to leave our houses unless it was an absolute necessity. And just thinking, like that was so lucky. And then valuing the time that I’m then able to spend at home. And obviously, we had, we had Louis in in October, and then I took my paternity for all of November. And then I had an agreement with my work that I could work from home in December, because we were actually back in the office the second half of the year. And then obviously, the lockdown has continued. So we’re now working from home, January and February and probably in March as well. So



I now get to spend my lunch times, you know, getting a cuddle from from my son, which is like unbelievable. And obviously, if I was in the office, and I wouldn’t be able to get that. And so I really, really value like that, that time getting to spend at home with family, definitely.



Just to add on to that as well.



I think when we when we leave university, when we left, it’s very much like, you’re probably treated as a number, because of all these graduate schemes. All you get told is how competitive everything is all the time. And I think that, you know, you’re just grateful to get through the door of a job. And you’re not necessarily looking for a workplace that is going to give you that balance at the time, because that’s not something that we expect, I don’t think when we go into it, and this pandemic has really shown that actually, these things are important, like Andy got, you know, to have that team at home, in which he probably would never have got to have had this pandemic and probably would never even have expected to be able to get. So I think it’s been really nice for millennials as well to have actually get some of those values that potentially have been lost in our generation and realize how important that they actually are.



What is the one skill that you didn’t have prior to the pandemic? And that you now have



for me



to do nothing,



which I know seems really silly, but I think it’s true, though. Yeah, it’s it’s to actually not not beat yourself up for actually just having a free evening, which is because I am very much I am like, Miss motivation. Every second counts, get on doing those online free courses on future Laird. Like, that’s what I was doing at the start. And I think just now being able to take a step back and I will 100% Take that into life after the pandemic. Wow, I love to do nothing. There is a thing there is a book called The Psychology of doing nothing.



I send you the reference. One thing that I’ve learned well, it’s not necessarily learned I’ve always had the skill but I’ve caught up with every single person that I feel like I ever has been in contact with. And I think you know when you’re



so busy with life and you’re just so focused in your own little bubble. And people I went to uni with down in Birmingham, I don’t ever speak to them. When I’m up in Scotland and caught up with them. I’ve called everyone that I went traveling with. And I met while I was traveling, and I have a reputation with some of my friends at home that I have a very busy zoom schedule, because every night I have a zoom call, and every single online activity, whether it’s a quiz, or bingo, everything, and I think it’s kind of been really nice. It’s just catching up with people and kind of getting out of your own bubble and actually, not being so self centered sometimes, and I wouldn’t say I was necessarily a self centered person, but it’s, you’re in that own little bubble of, I go to work, I do this or I’m going down here next week, and blah, blah, but actually stopping and seeing what other people are doing and checking in on people. I think that’s a massive part of this whole mental health thing is actually everyone’s like, Oh, yeah, I’m okay. And it’s always the people who say they’re okay, that are not okay. So it’s checking in with people and actually, just building up those friendships again, that I’m lucky that a lot of friendships that I haven’t spoke to in a while I call them up and it’s like, nothing’s changed. And I think that’s a sign of a great friendship, but just catching up with people and kind of just making sure that they’re okay, as well, I think and being that person if they want to talk that I’ve got no reason I’ve got nothing else to do. I’m definitely here to talk kind of thing. And it kind of normally you’d make that excuse being like, oh, sorry, I’m busy tonight, or I’m going out I’ve got something I’ve planned. Actually, you haven’t got anything planned because they know you’re not going out because you can’t know



that excuse has gone away. And it kind of forces you in a nice way to make those conversations and catch up with people as well. So, Johnny, you’re now going to have to add three zoom calls. Me and John because



they have to book you in months in advance.






Can you can you hear me? Oh, we can’t hear you. You were muted, but you still are now. Are they go?



No, we can’t say very faint.



Your headphones, and you work on it. And I’ll I’ll come Hello.



The sound is coming through my laptop now instead of my headphones anyway.



What I’ve learned to do is to change nappies.



Sorry, that was very good said.



I hope so. But no, I think echoing what Charlie said is finding time for friends and family and things like that. And I was I was very much I think quite selfish actually looking back to think about how I spent my evenings I was not interested in you know, making time to phone family members and things like that. But now, you know, we have



a screaming baby in the background. Sorry.



He must have woken up from his nap. But no, you know, obviously we regularly check in with with our family members, and especially, you know, like my, my granny, who’s she’s 92 and not really able to get her in the boat very much. And she’s missing all over social gatherings that she’s she’s used to and during normal times, but you know, and make a lot of time to make sure that she’s, she’s not lonely, which is, which is really important.



Wow, we have about two minutes left on it. Is there any final message from from you, that you want to share with the world?



For me, don’t worry, if you’ve not got it, all planned, things will work out. But just keep an open mind. And I think that that will always, always stand in your favor. Mine definitely echoes off that I was going to say take every opportunity. And kind of like you said don’t necessarily plan too far ahead because something could come up and it will come particular in a completely different path. So I never thought I’d end up in Scotland. But here I am. And I absolutely love it three years later. So thanks for welcoming me.






I think just became as well you’re just, I think I think that’s the main thing that has come out of the lockdowns and everything is just



little kind of random acts of kindness and no it was random acts of kindness ne D yesterday, I think it was



so just kind of seeing like, all these you know, people stay in touch. Like obviously, Charlie, we’ve seen like keeping in touch with people that she’s not spoken to him in years and stuff like that. Just making sure that everybody is okay, and just checking in with everyone.



Fantastic. John and Jenny, do you want to say anything?



I haven’t, my brain hasn’t been engaged. I just been been listening



I pick up on Andy’s kindness thing. I think that’s



a very sought a miss the kind that you had a conversation about kindness. You and Jenny and Lisa Grace are sort of missed that I’m I’m big on the fact that people underestimate kindness and how significant



that is at all at all levels, particularly if you have people who are looking to you for anything.



You know whether that’s a parent role a teacher role, a leadership role or whatever it is. Kindness is is the place to start?



I think so pick up on that. Yeah. So it’s not a novel one but no, no, no, there’s no right or wrong. No, no, no, no, but but nice to have had a different one, wouldn’t it feel one year mumbles



I think for me, it’s about the strip back life really, is that a lot of things have fallen by the wayside over the past year. And I, you know, I do feel that they probably will get picked up again. Because I think we’ve started to value things that are kind of more intrinsic, like friendship and kindness and all the other things we’ve mentioned. So I think that I think we’ll come out of this pandemic, or a different society to the society that went in and I think that’s a good thing. It’s interesting, isn’t it? Your question, Nadine, was what skills and then Charlie, Natalie, Italia, and Andy, all



reference something that was was very human was very, it was about relationships and about, about the importance of of that, rather than, you know, it could have been a cold skill, it could have been, you know,



whatever, you know, got my SQL. You know,



I think that’s I think that’s really significant and really encouraging. And I hope we can not we six Well, we as a society, we can, we can tease out the benefits of this period of for us, not not lose them not not regressed to, to how we were before, but to take those positive things out and move on. Yeah.



Yeah, yeah, we’ve had some and I’ve been waiting an hour, we’ve got one.



Lorraine Potter just says I enjoyed the women, I resonated a lot on how I saw the life stroke career journey. Great to hear millennial perspective. Oh, thank you. Thanks, Lorraine.



I have to say that I’m grateful to LinkedIn life, because when I applied to LinkedIn life back in August, I had no idea that first they would say yes, to me having things in life, and be that to some extent, Linden live, would help me navigate what’s happening at the moment, because I’ve managed to, and we’ve managed to grow a big community, we’ve managed to speak to a lot of people that we’ve not, you know, we didn’t know before. And, and that’s been totally enriching for me, personally, and it’s open and changed some of my ideas. It’s given me more ideas. And, and it’s lovely to hear that, actually, we’re all trying to survive, thrive. Because not everything is necessarily negative, we’ve got to look into positive. And and we’re kind of different people now than equally, you know, even not equally good as before, but even better than before, because we’ve got stronger values.



I really love that. So I’m, I’m grateful for the opportunity to be with Jenny and John, for example, that’s every Thursday, we’re all together, and we’re all bringing new people and we’re having a great conversation. And then that that’s very enriching. And you keep thinking about it. And people change your life as well by sayings, little things. I mean, I’m very, I love re listening to those LinkedIn live. And there is always something that somebody has said, which I think, oh, that’s resonating with me, or I’ll borrow debt to keep me going or I’ll investigate that. So Charley Andrew, an attorney challenge me I’m so grateful for this LinkedIn live today. It’s been great. Well, over time, we’re like an hour, five minutes. So thank you so much for, you know, saying yes to this LinkedIn live, because a few days ago, I had no idea who you were. And now you know, you. And we will keep in touch. And I hope that at some point, we get to meet up



that you’ve met online, with whom, you know,



build something, it would be great. So wishing you well. Thanks. Thanks for having me.



Thank you for the next few weeks and months and hopefully we’ll meet we’ll meet soon again. Thank you. Thank you.



Thank you.


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